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he's not a member of the stop the war

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Coalition he's the head of the British

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army our presence there is exacerbating

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this problem and we ought to get out

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quickly let me read you the words of uh

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the father of Alex green just died a few

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days ago in Iraq serving with the dukee

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of lancashire's regiment and he had a

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2-year-old boy and his his father wrote

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this he said we shouldn't pull the

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troops out if we'd pulled out last week

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of course my son would still be alive

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but it's not the right thing to do cuz

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if we go out who will go in as if as if

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the British public is saying we know

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there are going to be more deaths to

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bring democracy in Iraq but we don't

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want our boys dying send somebody else's

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boys and if you say that he said you're

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saying that my son died in vain well I'm

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I'm sorry to say that he did die in vain

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and he died on a pack of lies and I can

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give you a large number of military

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families bereaved parents just like that

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one who are saying the complete opposite

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who are saying that my son went to his

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death on a lie for the vanity of Tony

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Blair with respect isn't the question

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about whether the War was sold on a line

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irrelevant now because we've moved on

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irq is in a terrible Place everybody

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would agree with that the question is

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how best to deal with that terrible

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respect you say everyone would agree

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with that but when people like me were

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predicting it we were rubbished and

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ridiculed and troduced by this very same

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corporation that say every scoring now

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well it's not a question of Point

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scoring it's a question of having to

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understand where we've been how we got

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here here in order to know what we have

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to do now the truth is there will be

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many more such young soldiers mainly

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American but uh unless we continue to be

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very lucky including significant number

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of British casualties who are dying for

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nothing nothing's going to change in

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Iraq as long as they are there now

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that's not to say that everything in

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Iraq will get better if the the

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Coalition forces withdraw it's a

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necessary but not sufficient ition that

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they should withdraw in other words if

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they don't withdraw nothing will ever

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get better do you regret looking back at

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what you've said over the last few years

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do you regret some of your comments made

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about the the presence of British troops

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in Iraq and and the nature of the

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Insurgency because you upset an awful

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lot of people I'm the person that got it

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right about Iraq I mean honestly that's

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a perverse question um if you go back

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through what I said you say it's

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perverse I just want to quote to you

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some of your own language during 2003

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you described the US and British as

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attacking Iraq like wolves who would

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dispute it who would it's the nature of

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the language the best thing British

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troops can do is refuse to obey illegal

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orders it is an obligation under

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nurenberg to refuse illegal orders I'm

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surprised you pray that one and8 against

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well I just wonder whether you what

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should they have done should they have

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obeyed illegal orders my point obviously

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it is a debate which you can have with

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the with the Blair government about

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whether those orders were illegal it's

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not a debate you going to have with me

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what I'm interested in is whether you

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reget using the sort of language which

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made it easy for your enemies your

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political enemies and I'm thinking about

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inside the labor party to Chuck you out

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the party no uh it was unfair to the

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noble wolf to compare him to Bush and

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Blair these two men have caused the

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deaths if you believe the Lancet the

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Journal of the British Medical

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Association and the Johns Hopkins

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University of almost 34 of a million

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people that's a very very big pool of

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blood that's a very very big Mass grave

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and if the accurate prediction that that

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would turn out to be so is to be held

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against one then that would compound

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what I think is a real problem in this

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country you see the only person in the

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BBC who actually told the truth was

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Andrew Gilligan and he got sacked the

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man who backed him Greg Dyke the

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director General stood by his man and

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got sacked Gavin Davis stood by his DG

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and got sacked uh uh Pi Morgan in the

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mirror got sacked I got act the people

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that uh were right about Iraq who stood

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up and told people what they needed to

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hear have been marginalized traduced

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ridiculed I I I want you yeah I want you

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to consider though in retrospect whether

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you could have phrased things used

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different language for example in GQ

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magazine in May of last year you said a

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suicide bomb attack on Mr Blair would be

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morally justifiable logical explicable

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and morally equivalent to The Ordering

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of the deaths of thousands of Innocents

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as Blair did in Iraq quite so uh if the

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Iraqi uh man whose uh life had been

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destroyed country occupied broken uh

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ruined if his family was in Abu gra

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these are all the uh the conditions in

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this hypothetical you see but but it's

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the language which we hear

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from from

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Al that's not fair it is the language

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that we hear from because if if you were

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being honest to your viewers you'd have

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to tell them I was answering a question

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from Pier Morgan who said if you were in

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Iraqi whose country had been occupied

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etc etc could you justify uh a suicide

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bomb attack on the prime minister of

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course as a hypothetical question no one

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could dispute that it would be unfair to

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leave the viewers with the impression I

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came along the road and blurted out that

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a suicide bomb attack on the Prime

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Minister would be justified but of

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course no such suicide bomb attack is

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going to take place nor should it

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because it would merely uh make every

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matter worse however bomb attacks on

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British soldiers much less well

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protected than the Prime Minister whose

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cars don't have armor on them unlike the

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prime ministers whose equipment is not

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sufficient to defend them are dying in

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bomb attacks all the time to be clear

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you are saying and sticking to this

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point are you that Blair ordered

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premeditated mass murder yes he's a mass

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murderer he is responsible for Far More

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Death deaths than the uh obscurantist

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Savage Bin Laden he's responsible for

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far more deaths than Saddam Hussein he's

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responsible with Mr Bush for everything

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that happened in Abu grab for everything

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that happened on The Killing Fields of

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Iraq and Beyond because against the law

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illegally and on a pack of Lies he

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launched aggressive War which nurmberg

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described as the ultimate War crime so

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would you shake Tony Blair's hand right

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now not only as a a Prelude to shaking

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him by the throat uh so if you think

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that you've encountered someone here who

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thinks this is all just a kind of normal

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policy mistake you're wrong I believe I

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hang on I just want to pursue this idea

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about hand Mr Blair's a criminal Mr

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Blair you've made that point a criminal

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you've made that point very clear I just

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want to compare and contrast with your

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behavior and your attitude toward Saddam

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Hussein you had a couple of meetings

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with Saddam Hussein they lasted several

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hours you shook his hand very happily

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his presence you said sir I salute your

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courage Your strength yourability well

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actually quite a few of the things

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you've just said there are wrong you

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didn't shake his hand I didn't meet him

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for several hours uh I met him once for

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4 minutes and once for 90 minutes that's

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not several hour well that adds up to 1

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hour and 34 minutes but that's which is

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not several hour more than an hour but

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it's not s more than an hour and you

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certainly I will deal with each of your

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points I'll deal with each of your

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points s atam just don't get them wrong

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1 hour and 34 minutes is not several

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hours secondly I did not salute his

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courage strength and indefatigability I

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saluted the Iraqi people's courage

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strength and indefatigability which if

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you saw the whole of the speech you

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would know to be true I didn't read the

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speech and I read that line it straight

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you no you actually haven't nobody's

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read the speech because it doesn't exist

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in any written form I have read a long

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passage reported to be the speech on the

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which included this line sir I salute

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your courage Your strength and your

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indacil but if you had read the whole

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speech you would know that the your Y in

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question was the Iraqi people but

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however that was 12 years and a million

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dead people ago so let's come up to date

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I am not responsible for Saddam Hussein